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GJP
Well-Known Member
Dorrans was knackered after an hour. Jarvis for Redmond weakened us.
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KeiranShikari
New Member
The left winger that has been solid at left back most of the season and the unknown right back with Champions League experience.
Canaryboy
Well-Known Member
I'm just saying that not playing a defensive midfielder in front of the back four was a mistake, and you disagree, that's fine.
I'm asking what Mulumbu has to do to get a game in the absence of both Tettey and O'Neil, the two players that we've been using in that role this season.
Mulumbu is a high calibre player and did fantastically in that sort of role away to Man City in October, he's the obvious player to have come in and replaced Tettey today. In my opinion, which you don't have to share.
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Gaffer
Active Member
Hooper has Champions League experience and look how that turned out. Champions League experience doesn't count for anything when you're playing for a lesser team like Zagreb.
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KeiranShikari
New Member
I'd have picked Mulumbu too. I just don't think that's the thing that cost us.
KeiranShikari
New Member
20 goals in 70 was it. Not bad that Hooper.
Pinto was against Moreno and Ibe and alongside Russell Martin meaning he was on his own. He was caught out a few times but generally looked okay to me. Clearly not match sharp of course. The only other options where Whittaker or Martin with Klose starting and Alex Neil clearly didn't want to rush him. In retrospect rushing Klose in would have probably been the better choice.
Canaryboy
Well-Known Member
That's very true but I think you're being harsh on Pinto, it was a bit of a baptism of fire and I don't think he was that bad.
KeiranShikari
New Member
Would like to have seen Timm Klose's reactions during that game. Must be wondering what he's gotten himself in to. :lol:
Canaryboy
Well-Known Member
Pinto isn't the only right back that we have to have played with a lesser team in the Champions League, just to illustrate that point.
But even if Pinto turns out to be no better than Whittaker, the latter is 32 in the summer and so its about time we traded him in for a younger model.
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Fimbo
Member
I thought bassong was also culpable for third goal. Deserted his station to chase the ball out wide on the right. Poor judgement and left an easy route to goal. Martins mistake for goal four was awful. Not sure how we eradicate individual mistakes like this. But having said that I wanted to see klose and Bennett paired today.
lyb
Active Member
Most people seemed pretty positive about Pinto today. Also don't really understand why people are so vehemently against Brady at left back: He's played there for his country as well, the big gaffes seem to be coming from the centre backs.
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Fimbo
Member
On a.positive.note, what a first half!
KeiranShikari
New Member
Next lineup will be quite interesting. Could see Ruddy, Klose and Olsson all coming in.
Canaryboy
Well-Known Member
And Tettey back hopefully.
Canaryboy
Well-Known Member
Which one of our players headed the ball back across our box for the 5th goal?
KeiranShikari
New Member
Think it was Russ.
KeiranShikari
New Member
Other results have been kind to us.
K
Killiecanary
New Member
Just returned from that...well, not sure what adjective to use really. Had to stop on way home for a restorative dram or two...frustrating beyond words not to see the draw out at least, although 3-1 up really at home you've got to win the game.
positives?
Naismith obviously. Absolutely immense for us today, organisationally strong and demanding of others, work-rate, tackles and movement off the ball. Every bit what we hoped we'd be getting. And we are going to need him! AN obviously went all out for it today with that midfield and forward line up - Although he was forced into it I guess - Tettey's illness hurt us, and I really hope Bennetts absence was down to him being with his wife as she went into labour as I have heard! Thought Mbokani linked well and Wes and Naismith surprisingly managed to stay out of each other's space and link up better than I had expected. Going forward, Howson and Dorrans were fine, and we looked dangerous most of the time we came over the halfway line
Negatives?
hmmmmmm....I wonder?? The central defensive pairings were awful - appalling as Russ was (and by God he was) I don't absolve Bassong from any of that blame. Someone in there has to sort stuff out and they just didn't. I won't judge the new RB yet, but from any angle it has to be at the very least an inauspicious debut. We clearly lack leadership on th pitch - the headless chicken routines for the 2nd, 3rd, 4th and especially 5th goals showed that. There was no defensive shape, no communication, no organisation. These are professional footballers. AN was clearly furious. Good. So are we. I felt sorry for Rudd - as with Bournemouth last week he isn't being given any protection at all, and we don't give teams half-chances but clear 1 on 1 clean through chances.
That was like a repeat of the Newcastle horror show...and after that one AN retreated into his shell a bit and we played a fairly negative stifling style of football for a few matches to shore things up defensively...wonder what he'll do this time?
positives?
Naismith obviously. Absolutely immense for us today, organisationally strong and demanding of others, work-rate, tackles and movement off the ball. Every bit what we hoped we'd be getting. And we are going to need him! AN obviously went all out for it today with that midfield and forward line up - Although he was forced into it I guess - Tettey's illness hurt us, and I really hope Bennetts absence was down to him being with his wife as she went into labour as I have heard! Thought Mbokani linked well and Wes and Naismith surprisingly managed to stay out of each other's space and link up better than I had expected. Going forward, Howson and Dorrans were fine, and we looked dangerous most of the time we came over the halfway line
Negatives?
hmmmmmm....I wonder?? The central defensive pairings were awful - appalling as Russ was (and by God he was) I don't absolve Bassong from any of that blame. Someone in there has to sort stuff out and they just didn't. I won't judge the new RB yet, but from any angle it has to be at the very least an inauspicious debut. We clearly lack leadership on th pitch - the headless chicken routines for the 2nd, 3rd, 4th and especially 5th goals showed that. There was no defensive shape, no communication, no organisation. These are professional footballers. AN was clearly furious. Good. So are we. I felt sorry for Rudd - as with Bournemouth last week he isn't being given any protection at all, and we don't give teams half-chances but clear 1 on 1 clean through chances.
That was like a repeat of the Newcastle horror show...and after that one AN retreated into his shell a bit and we played a fairly negative stifling style of football for a few matches to shore things up defensively...wonder what he'll do this time?
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Din
Well-Known Member
I don't even know anymore to be honest. Canaryboy made some of these points well but I'll say them anyway:
1) To have a 3-1 lead and then to be 4-3 down 20 minutes later is ridiculous, no matter who you are or who you're playing. To then get an equaliser with only a couple of minutes left and then throw that away just adds to the shambolic nature of our defensive performance today.
2) How many times are we going to have to sit here after a game and say that Russell Martin shouldn't be in the team? It seems to be after practically every game he plays that we say it, but today he was particularly poor. My main feeling when he gifted Liverpool their 4th goal with that god-awful back pass was sympathy. I felt bad for him because his limited ability isn't really his fault, if he's not good enough then he shouldn't be selected, but nevertheless he is a really nice guy and a great pro who has done a lot of good over the course of his career here. But surely this is the nail in his coffin? The fact is he isn't good enough and he shouldn't be playing, and choosing him ahead of Bennett today was completely the wrong call from Alex Neil. It would amaze me if Klose doesn't replace him in the side against Tottenham.
3) Neil also got it wrong by not selecting a ball-winning midfielder. Dorrans didn't do badly today at all but he just wasn't what we needed. The natural replacement for Tettey in the team is Mulumbu and I don't understand why he hasn't been selected. We really struggled to win the ball back off Liverpool at times in the second half and he could've helped with that.
4) I'm starting to agree about Rudd should perhaps be dropped. Isn't doing an awful lot wrong and isn't really making any mistakes but perhaps he just isn't good enough. Hopefully this break would've done Ruddy done some good and if he can re-discover his form then he could be a big asset. If he can't then in the summer we should sign a new keeper. Rudd might turn out to be a quality keeper one day but we can't really afford to keeping playing him until that happens in our situation.
5) Both debutantes did well today, Naismith in particular. Scored one very good goal and essentially set up another where he won the penalty. Fits the way we play very well and got the best out of Mbokani. If he can continue that then he will be invaluable and the £8m we spent would've been more than merited. Pinto started a bit slowly, got beaten by Ibe a couple of times but he gradually grew into the game and he is certainly promising. He was generally solid defensively and was a threat down the right wing as well, plus he had the work ethic and pace to get back most of the time after he had gone forward, although he did get caught out of position for Firmino's 2nd.
6) Going forward today we were excellent. A combination of Brady (who was back to his best today after a couple of dodgy performances),Hoolahan, Naismith and Mbokani caused a lot of problems for Liverpool, and I think the addition of Naismith really helped to get the best out of our attack. Of all our attackers though the most disappointing was Redmond, who has been poor for a while now and really needs to sort himself out.
7) There were a number of good performances overall today. I touched on Brady, Hoolahan, Naismith, Mbokani and Pinto who all played well. Howson and Dorrans also put in solid if performances in centre midfield, and despite a generally bad defensive showing Bassong wasn't bad at all today.
I think if we bring Klose in for Martin then a lot of our problems will be solved. Had we Klose in today, match fit or not, we wouldn't have imploded in the way we did today. I do worry though that a result like this and the way we lost it will have an effect on the confidence of the players, especially as we now have 10 days til our next game.
1) To have a 3-1 lead and then to be 4-3 down 20 minutes later is ridiculous, no matter who you are or who you're playing. To then get an equaliser with only a couple of minutes left and then throw that away just adds to the shambolic nature of our defensive performance today.
2) How many times are we going to have to sit here after a game and say that Russell Martin shouldn't be in the team? It seems to be after practically every game he plays that we say it, but today he was particularly poor. My main feeling when he gifted Liverpool their 4th goal with that god-awful back pass was sympathy. I felt bad for him because his limited ability isn't really his fault, if he's not good enough then he shouldn't be selected, but nevertheless he is a really nice guy and a great pro who has done a lot of good over the course of his career here. But surely this is the nail in his coffin? The fact is he isn't good enough and he shouldn't be playing, and choosing him ahead of Bennett today was completely the wrong call from Alex Neil. It would amaze me if Klose doesn't replace him in the side against Tottenham.
3) Neil also got it wrong by not selecting a ball-winning midfielder. Dorrans didn't do badly today at all but he just wasn't what we needed. The natural replacement for Tettey in the team is Mulumbu and I don't understand why he hasn't been selected. We really struggled to win the ball back off Liverpool at times in the second half and he could've helped with that.
4) I'm starting to agree about Rudd should perhaps be dropped. Isn't doing an awful lot wrong and isn't really making any mistakes but perhaps he just isn't good enough. Hopefully this break would've done Ruddy done some good and if he can re-discover his form then he could be a big asset. If he can't then in the summer we should sign a new keeper. Rudd might turn out to be a quality keeper one day but we can't really afford to keeping playing him until that happens in our situation.
5) Both debutantes did well today, Naismith in particular. Scored one very good goal and essentially set up another where he won the penalty. Fits the way we play very well and got the best out of Mbokani. If he can continue that then he will be invaluable and the £8m we spent would've been more than merited. Pinto started a bit slowly, got beaten by Ibe a couple of times but he gradually grew into the game and he is certainly promising. He was generally solid defensively and was a threat down the right wing as well, plus he had the work ethic and pace to get back most of the time after he had gone forward, although he did get caught out of position for Firmino's 2nd.
6) Going forward today we were excellent. A combination of Brady (who was back to his best today after a couple of dodgy performances),Hoolahan, Naismith and Mbokani caused a lot of problems for Liverpool, and I think the addition of Naismith really helped to get the best out of our attack. Of all our attackers though the most disappointing was Redmond, who has been poor for a while now and really needs to sort himself out.
7) There were a number of good performances overall today. I touched on Brady, Hoolahan, Naismith, Mbokani and Pinto who all played well. Howson and Dorrans also put in solid if performances in centre midfield, and despite a generally bad defensive showing Bassong wasn't bad at all today.
I think if we bring Klose in for Martin then a lot of our problems will be solved. Had we Klose in today, match fit or not, we wouldn't have imploded in the way we did today. I do worry though that a result like this and the way we lost it will have an effect on the confidence of the players, especially as we now have 10 days til our next game.
Dubai Mark
Active Member
Din, sums it up brilliantly, was not all bad today!
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