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The politics thread.

F

Fen Canary

Active Member
If a British child goes to a fee-paying school in the UK, that is a child the state is not having to pay to educate at all. Putting ideology aside, that's a benefit to the nation. Also, while VAT may not be being paid on the fees for the schools, every employee of the school will be paying national insturance and income tax; as a charity, one way or the other, the revenue will either contribute to building the institution or somehow flow back into the economy elsewhere.

The public school system does bring money into the UK. Many of the children of the world's elites go to school in the UK, building relationships with each other and the British kids they mix with. That's soft power and an investment in our diplomatic reach down the line, which as a pretty small island with little in the way of natural resources is pretty important.

In many respects, I don't think the VAT decision is that big a deal; for the vast majority it will not be a factor in whether they go, which means it's good for the treasury. On the other hand, where it will have an effect is the cut off line for kids in the UK where it's marginal where its affordable for the kids to go there. The only social effect of this will ironically be simply widening the gap as far as social mobility is concerned. I don't entirely disagree with it, but I would have liked to have seen a VAT exemption for British children attending these schools.

Wanting rid of public schools is understandable from a very narrow idealistic point of view, but in the real world it's a destructive thing. Beyond that, In the final analysis, equality in education is impossible; if you have two children in the same school, the child whose parents take more interest in their children's education will always tend to have better educational outcomes than the child whose parents don't care. And ultimately, if the government actually delivers decent education for everyone, the sector would become redundant without anyone having to actively seek its destruction.

As for Trinity, King's, and all the other colleges and their assets, it's really of no importance how big or small their portfolios are. The bottom line is that the rents they get from those portfolios go into keeping one of the best educational establishments in the world as one of the best educational establishments in the world for the betterment of the students, research and development, mankind, and the local tourist trade paying for the upkeep of the beautiful architecture.
Whilst I don’t disagree with what you say LYB (I definitely think the decision is more ideologically driven than anything else),my only question is why you think getting rid of public schools would be a destructive thing? Finland has essentially banned fee paying schools and their education system is much better than ours
 
morty

morty

Moderator
Staff member
Whilst I don’t disagree with what you say LYB (I definitely think the decision is more ideologically driven than anything else),my only question is why you think getting rid of public schools would be a destructive thing? Finland has essentially banned fee paying schools and their education system is much better than ours
For me, the whole thing is poorly thought through, and as you say, is more ideologically driven than anything. As usual none of their sums add up, and the net gains financially will be outweighed by the extra strain on the school system. Labour are essentially levelling down here.
 
lyb

lyb

Active Member
Whilst I don’t disagree with what you say LYB (I definitely think the decision is more ideologically driven than anything else),my only question is why you think getting rid of public schools would be a destructive thing? Finland has essentially banned fee paying schools and their education system is much better than ours
Finland might have a great education system, but I doubt that’s a result of them banning fee-paying schools.

It’s the children of the world’s wealthiest and most influential who go there, and they’ll tend to go on to be the next generation of the world’s wealthiest and most influential, who will take their friendships and relationships from school into later life. Those sorts of personal relationships can be important, especially in diplomacy.
 
P

PukkiParty

Member
I would suggest you check your facts first before, so as not to post misinformation. The UK does not even have the highest energy prices in Erope never mind the world
I believe it is highest industrial electricity prices that is often claimed we have. That's why you are seeing so many businesses failing and then citing the high energy prices as the reason.

Household is different because we have the energy 'price cap'. But the price cap only covers households, not commercial properties / entities.

Commercial energy prices have been a huge driver in price inflation.
 
morty

morty

Moderator
Staff member
But, but Labour will make our energy bills cheaper...

Energy bills.jpeg
 
lyb

lyb

Active Member
I believe it is highest industrial electricity prices that is often claimed we have. That's why you are seeing so many businesses failing and then citing the high energy prices as the reason.

Household is different because we have the energy 'price cap'. But the price cap only covers households, not commercial properties / entities.

Commercial energy prices have been a huge driver in price inflation.
I think it’s a crying shame that there hasn’t been more investment in solar and I do think the last government should have done more to incentivise them.

Prices of panels are getting stupidly cheap now. My brother has 500w panels around Nottingham and they reliably deliver about 250w minimum in daytime even in Nottingham.
 
F

Fen Canary

Active Member
I think it’s a crying shame that there hasn’t been more investment in solar.

Prices of panels are getting stupidly cheap now. My brother has 500w panels around Nottingham and they reliably deliver about 250w minimum in daytime even in Nottingham.
Unfortunately it’s largely useless unless you have means of storing the power. Electricity has to be generated as it’s demanded, which is why renewables are still woefully inefficient. They give you no control over when they’ll produce power and you have no ability to ramp up the output at times of high demand. The only technology we currently have that can produce electricity cleanly and as we need it is nuclear. The fact we’ve built no new reactors for years is a national scandal
 
lyb

lyb

Active Member
In France, there’s a buy back scheme to sell back into the grid, but batteries are getting more affordable. Highest demand is in the daytime, but not in houses, so the spare household solar capacity sold into the grid will be reducing peak demand for gas and nuclear, which will have a knock on effect on overall energy costs.

Nobody uses their roof space for anything. Solar may not be the whole answer, but it will make a huge difference.
 
morty

morty

Moderator
Staff member
I got solar installed in November. I had been mithering over it for a few years, but the price was coming in at nearly 10k, so the length of time it was going to take to pay off just didn't make it worth it. Then either the City or County council started a scheme called "Solar Together" where you registered interest and the more people who did meant the stronger bid you could put in. My system came in at just under 5k, which is 7 panels, inverter and battery storage. The system is in my garden, the installation company say they do not install in loft spaces as if there was a fire then you have a few hundred kilos of battery falling through your ceiling. Also the batteries work better when cool.

I am still learning how to use it, in the winter months, when the sun is low (I have a fully south facing roof) and you aren't generating much then I am charging my batteries from the grid overnight, at a cheaper rate, then they discharge through the day. Once the sun is higher in the sky and the days are longer, I will be able to switch this off. Obviously I am yet to see, but I could be, more or less, off grid through the summer. I have already exported a small amount back to the grid, so also assume I'll top up a fair bit of credit through the summer to offset my costs in the winter. Feed in tariffs are nowhere near what they used to be so, yes, batteries are the future.

20241104_121909.jpg


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lyb

lyb

Active Member
I got solar installed in November. I had been mithering over it for a few years, but the price was coming in at nearly 10k, so the length of time it was going to take to pay off just didn't make it worth it. Then either the City or County council started a scheme called "Solar Together" where you registered interest and the more people who did meant the stronger bid you could put in. My system came in at just under 5k, which is 7 panels, inverter and battery storage. The system is in my garden, the installation company say they do not install in loft spaces as if there was a fire then you have a few hundred kilos of battery falling through your ceiling. Also the batteries work better when cool.

I am still learning how to use it, in the winter months, when the sun is low (I have a fully south facing roof) and you aren't generating much then I am charging my batteries from the grid overnight, at a cheaper rate, then they discharge through the day. Once the sun is higher in the sky and the days are longer, I will be able to switch this off. Obviously I am yet to see, but I could be, more or less, off grid through the summer. I have already exported a small amount back to the grid, so also assume I'll top up a fair bit of credit through the summer to offset my costs in the winter. Feed in tariffs are nowhere near what they used to be so, yes, batteries are the future.

View attachment 1419

View attachment 1420
The problem is that the energy generator has no say in how much the energy is purchased for in this case. There needs to be some legal instrument for setting the minimum price for buyback.

What is the buyback tariff for you for a kWH?

Also, how long did it take them to install it?
 
morty

morty

Moderator
Staff member
The problem is that the energy generator has no say in how much the energy is purchased for in this case. There needs to be some legal instrument for setting the minimum price for buyback.

What is the buyback tariff for you for a kWH?
I think it is all set by a regulated body. My neighbour had his solar installed about 10 years ago, and his rate is fantastic, I think to encourage people they were getting something like a 25 year deal. The companies will do everything they can to get you off it. He has no batteries and wants to install some but EDF has told him that if he changes his installation he loses his feed in tariff. I have another friend who makes 2 or 3 grand a year off his.

I'm with Octopus, on their flux tariff. Installation took a morning, they arrived at 8am, and I think they were done by 1 oclock. I'm an electrician so could cast a critical eye over the installation, and I am extremely happy with the standard. Also it is all regulated, they have to produce commissioning documents and it has to meet standards before you get a licence to export.

I control it all from an app on my phone and have become a bit addicted to how much I am producing!

nn.png
 
lyb

lyb

Active Member
I think it is all set by a regulated body. My neighbour had his solar installed about 10 years ago, and his rate is fantastic, but the companies will do everything they can to get you off it. He has no batteries and wants to install some but EDF has told him that if he changes his installation he loses his feed in tariff. I have another friend who makes 2 or 3 grand a year off his.

I'm with Octopus, on their flux tariff.

View attachment 1421
Must be honest, I thought the export rates were going to be lower than that. Can you dump all of your battery charge into the grid between 16:00 and 19:00 if you’re not using it?
 
morty

morty

Moderator
Staff member
Must be honest, I thought the export rates were going to be lower than that. Can you dump all of your battery charge into the grid between 16:00 and 19:00 if you’re not using it?
I think you can micromanage it to that extent if you want to, but I have modified my usage a bit, ie I won't put the tumble drier or washing machine on between 16:00 and 19:00. The way it is priced though means that it is a better idea to use the power you have generated, rather than export it.

So at the minute my battery charges between 2 and 5am, it is currently sitting at 83% charge and I am taking nothing from the grid. In the winter weak sun my battery will likley be discharged by teatime, then I am on grid. I assume in the summer I'll be generating, exporting and charging most of the day, and use virtually nothing from the grid.

Before installation they do a survey to ascertain your usage. Too much battery storage is actually a bad thing, rather than good. But it is almost like I could do with an extra battery through the winter, and take it offline in summer. My system has the capacity to increase the battery storage.
 
How I Wrote Elastic Man

How I Wrote Elastic Man

Member
my electric is the equivalent of 25 quid a month, and most of that is standing charge :cool:
not sure what hot water costs as it´s included in the rent

some of the profits UK energy companies make are obscene, given the cost to the consumer
essential services should be run for the benefit of the public, not private companies
 
morty

morty

Moderator
Staff member
my electric is the equivalent of 25 quid a month, and most of that is standing charge :cool:
not sure what hot water costs as it´s included in the rent

some of the profits UK energy companies make are obscene, given the cost to the consumer
essential services should be run for the benefit of the public, not private companies
I think the profit margins are closely governed by OFGEM, am not so sure they are wildly profiteering. What is making our bills high is the green levy.
 
lyb

lyb

Active Member
I believe the industry is set up so that the retailers have tiny margins which is the bit OFGEM can regulate; it’s the wholesalers that have the huge margins.
 
morty

morty

Moderator
Staff member
I believe the industry is set up so that the retailers have tiny margins which is the bit OFGEM can regulate; it’s the wholesalers that have the huge margins.
We have absolutely sold our energy security to the windmill men. There is plenty North sea gas and oil to see us through any transition (North sea oil and gas is also taxed at 75% which brings in a lot of revenue).

People seem to have this weird idea that renewable energy companies are somehow different and they are doing it all for the good of the planet. As someone who works in the energy industry I can tell you that is absolute bollocks :p

Ed Milliband will bankrupt us.
 
Ricardo

Ricardo

Active Member
Most currencies falling against the dollar. Life is about to get more expensive.
 
H

Helsinki Canary

New Member
Whilst I don’t disagree with what you say LYB (I definitely think the decision is more ideologically driven than anything else),my only question is why you think getting rid of public schools would be a destructive thing? Finland has essentially banned fee paying schools and their education system is much better than ours
Both my kids are going through the Finnish school system, its free and as good as any fee paying school in the UK - there is only a handful of fee payment schools here and those are International schools for visiting expat kids mostly
 
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