Looks like we've signed Brady!

[kirku]

I too doubt we'd spend 7m on a backup. Personally, I think Toffolo has looked decent; he certainly didn't look out of place against Augsburg

 

[The Great Mass Debater]

It does make you wonder what the point of bothering with a youth academy is if we're not prepared to expose them to first team football. If Olsson is knowingly only going to be out for a few games then give Toffolo his opportunity. Else whats the point.

They're never going to be ready until you give them a chance

 

[Dubai Mark]

My guess is that the promotion has probably caused a problem for some of the youngsters who could well have been regulars in the Championship squad/team next season and performed well....BUT, things changed after Wembley. That said, it does appear that there is a keeness from the management to involve a few of them, so I am expecting to see some involvement as the season progresses certainly from Toffolo, McGrandles,Thompson and the Murphy's unless they are put out to a decent Championship side of course. Its actually very promising when also considering how well Steer has done. 

 

[KeiranShikari]

In recent seasons we've either been scrapping for safety or going for promotion, not really situations where you can blood youngsters easily, especially when we do have such a big and experienced squad. You would imagine that had Neil been in charge from the beginning last time we'd have been in the position to give some of them a real go.

I agree, it does seem as if the current setup are going to give youngsters chances. Would really be great if we could start producing some first team players.

 

[The Great Mass Debater]

The league we're in is irrelevant really though. We're in our 4th recent Premier League season, so the academy has to be looking to produce Premier League calibre players else its all pointless

 

[KeiranShikari]

Well, even producing league 2 players will make money, so not completely pointless. 

The fact is that until a player is given an opportunity we don't know if we've produced a Premier League footballer. Some players will improve dramatically and step given the chance and obviously others won't, it'll be about the management team judging the right time to give them that chance. 

We made category one EPPP status at the end of 2012 so we'll hopefully start seeing the full effects of that over the coming seasons. Would imagine that helped the younger groups even more than the current crop of 19-21s.

 

[eatonparkboy]

I am a firm believer in trusting our youth. If they were deemed good enough at the time, unless there has been a real change in ability or form, they should have developed into first team reserves as a minimum.

But previous managers have not trusted in their own youth development programmes and thought that the chequebook is the answer. And we no longer have seen the likes of the Barhams, Gordons, Foxs and Suttons being given a chance.

However, the pressures of modern football do put unwanted pressure on a manager to get immediate results. This site had a majority of posters believing it would be a disaster if we didn't go straight back into the Prem last season.

Toffolo as an instance has had a full combative season of football behind him and unless he is told he is reserve for Ollson might as well go back to Swindon again. Lets take a leaf out of Southampton's book and trust in what we believe our academy is for. I cannot believe we would want to pay a lot of money for Brady when his place in the starting line up is not assured and to put him at left back just to play him would seem to be a poor utilisation of £7M!

 

[GJP]

You can't just give someone a chance because they've been through the youth setup.

They'll get a chance if they've shown enough - in the manager's view.

I remember when people thought the likes of the Jarvis brothers and Spillane were first team quality.

 

[KeiranShikari]

To be fair Ryan Jarvis did look pretty neat at youth level.

 

[GJP]

I never really saw much to get excited about.

 

[Boyerboy]

I am far from convinced that signing Brady is primarily about cover for Olssen. I agree that Toffolo offers something there. I think Brady is far more about competition for Bradley. We all know how good Brad was last season but it was a halcyon time and begs the question of whether he can repeat it especially at a higher level?

When Brad is off the pace, as at Wembley, we have little threat on the left and little option for change. I think we shall see Brad and Brady sharing left as we shall see Howson and Dorrans sharing in the centre with the one in form having possession and the other being used as competition and to change things when needed.

Brady's ability to cover left back is just a bonus on that scenario.

 

[KeiranShikari]

Brady's ability to cover left back is just a bonus on that scenario.

I'm pretty sure most people are thinking this.

 

[CanaryNath]

^ and is why AN sees fit to spend £7m rather than £5-6m

 

[The Great Mass Debater]

You can't just give someone a chance because they've been through the youth setup.

They'll get a chance if they've shown enough - in the manager's view.

I remember when people thought the likes of the Jarvis brothers and Spillane were first team quality.

We only found out they werent though by giving them an opportunity. The ones who arent felt to have the requisite potential wont be given pro-contracts at the end of their academy year. By definition, those we have given contracts to are deemed to have enough potential to make a career from football. First team exposure is part of them taking the next step up. They either take their opportunity and become an Eadie, (or sold for big money like Bellamy/Sutton) or they demonstrate they're not good enough and become a Robert Eagle.

I dont see the problem with 'risking' the youth. Can you remember many situations where teams came a cropper because a youngster wasnt up to it? Berahino's risky pass and Harry Kane's one on one miss aside I cant think of too many. But was this because they were young or just human?

The idea that experienced players dont make mistakes is bullsh*t, but it seems the concern that a youngster might make a costly mistake seems to be what holds them back. But Id argue if an established player makes a mistake, not much will ocme of it, but a younger player will learn from it

Even the best make costly mistakes at vital moments

 

[The Great Mass Debater]

I never really saw much to get excited about.

You're a hard man to impress...

 

[KeiranShikari]

Still don't believe that we're spending 7 mill on him.

 

[The Great Mass Debater]

Brad and Brady 

Rudd and Ruddy

Any other players who could be only a y away?

 

[eatonparkboy]

You can't just give someone a chance because they've been through the youth setup.

They'll get a chance if they've shown enough - in the manager's view.

I remember when people thought the likes of the Jarvis brothers and Spillane were first team quality.

You can give everyone a chance. And not just one game. Whether they are up to it is the question. That is when a manager shines. Not just going out and buying someone.

 

[eatonparkboy]

I am far from convinced that signing Brady is primarily about cover for Olssen. I agree that Toffolo offers something there. I think Brady is far more about competition for Bradley. We all know how good Brad was last season but it was a halcyon time and begs the question of whether he can repeat it especially at a higher level?

When Brad is off the pace, as at Wembley, we have little threat on the left and little option for change. I think we shall see Brad and Brady sharing left as we shall see Howson and Dorrans sharing in the centre with the one in form having possession and the other being used as competition and to change things when needed.

Brady's ability to cover left back is just a bonus on that scenario.

But the question is whether we can afford to buy someone for a large fee when they may not be a starter?

The team against Augsburg looked pretty much close to the opener against Palace in my mind. Maybe a more adventurous line up would have Howson in for Tettey/Mulumbu.

And I can can't see where Brady goes into that line up as I think you are being a touch harsh on Bradley. Sometimes it appears Bradley isn't in it but that is because Redmond is having a better time on the other side of the pitch and the focus moves to him and Bradley needs involvement, not a supporting role.

 

[Beauseant]

I think that most of the comments about Brady are founded on the assumption that we'll play a back four. I actually think that with Tettey and Mulumbu we may well utilise wingbacks more often. Its interesting listening to the Sky commentary of the Playoff Final which repeatedly refers to how Tettey's discipline allows Olsson and Whittaker to concentrate on getting forward as much as possible. Clearly Brady isn't  a better left back than Olsson (or maybe even Toffolo) but he is a very effective wingback.AN wouldn't have persevered with the Brady deal if he didn't want him badly.

As for the use of youth products, I think you'll see more development under Neil, who was renowned for it at Hamilton. I think Hughton's inate conservatism made him reluctant to use young players and I remember having a conversation with Lambert just before he left where he claimed that there was no-one in the Youth system who'd make the first team. We won the FA Youth Cup the following season.......