£16m+ in, but what's the point?

[lyb]

Now that we can see that Fer is not in the squad tonight, we basically know, all but officially, that he's gone. With Robert Snodgrass gone and now Fer the club has an extra £16m around: Worth having if you've got anything to do with it, but I'm concerned that as a Championship club we won't find much use to put it too. Snodgrass was understandable business with only a year left, but I feel a mistake has been made moving Fer on. Yes, it's a good price, but if we are unable to attract replacement talent that's really worthwhile and that results in us failing to make the grade for promotion, then that £10m doesn't look like such good business against the lost earnings from not having made it back to the Premier League. 

Certainly we badly need some incoming talent on the defensive front and the money will be useful for that if we can attract the players. Possibly I'm wrong, and I hope so, but if the transfer window closes and that money hasn't been used to good effect to strengthen the squad when we were already in a good financial position before the sale, I will not be very happy. 

 

[Canaryboy]

Now that we can see that Fer is not in the squad tonight, we basically know, all but officially, that he's gone. With Robert Snodgrass gone and now Fer the club has an extra £16m around: Worth having if you've got anything to do with it, but I'm concerned that as a Championship club we won't find much use to put it too. Snodgrass was understandable business with only a year left, but I feel a mistake has been made moving Fer on. Yes, it's a good price, but if we are unable to attract replacement talent that's really worthwhile and that results in us failing to make the grade for promotion, then that £10m doesn't look like such good business against the lost earnings from not having made it back to the Premier League. 

Certainly we badly need some incoming talent on the defensive front and the money will be useful for that if we can attract the players. Possibly I'm wrong, and I hope so, but if the transfer window closes and that money hasn't been used to good effect to strengthen the squad when we were already in a good financial position before the sale, I will not be very happy. 

People assume that we these transfers mean we have a big pot of money to spend, more like we needed to cut our wage bill to stay in the black. Our revenue is projected to halve this season. 

Even if it were as simple as seeing £16m from the transfers of Snodgrass and Fer, injected straight into a transfer budget, why are people not deducting the estimated fees for Grabban and Lafferty from that number before speculating on the transfer pot?

Grabban's fee was rumoured at £3m, and nobody has a clue what we paid for Lafferty - but it was probably a fair amount. 

 

[Bethnal Yellow and Green]

In 2013/14 Norwich received around £64m from the Premier League for the TV rights

This season Norwich will receive around £23m in parachute payments.

 

[lyb]

That's a fair point, but even so, given that we got the prize money from last year in the Premier League and that money was a big hike on the year before when we were already in the black and the last figure I saw was that our wages were about 50% of revenue, admittedly at the end of our first season back in the Premier League, we could afford to keep premium players like Fer, who both give us a better chance of being promoted in the first place and will reduce the need to buy in players should we be promoted. It also bothers me that this sale is, on the face of it, not what Adams wanted and that Bowkett had stated that anyone Adams wanted to keep, we could afford to. On the face of it, they seem to be backtracking on that and they kind of look like they're undermining Adams here. You already see people saying that Adams is a 'puppet manager', which I categorically don't agree with, but it adds fuel to the argument when he has so vociferously stated that he wanted to keep him. "Who in their right mind would open the door for Fer to leave?" were his words, I believe.

 

[Canaryboy]

If wages were 50% of revenue, and our revenue has halved, then that means if our wage bill remained the same this season we would have a wage bill which is 100% of turnover - which is clearly completely unsustainable.

We did release Fox & Nash, and Elmander, Guiterrez and Yobo were sent home. 

But I suspect we would find that people like Pilkington & Snodgrass were earning a lot more money than people like O'Neill. 

Even Becchio was said to be on £25k a week! Might explain why we are stuck with him! 

 

[lyb]

Well then either way that does rather suggest that Bowkett was talking out of his backside.

 

[lyb]

Interesting to note as well that Adams is no longer talking about transfer speculation as of tonight's Canary Call, which I take to mean that the board doesn't want to honour its commitment to him and doesn't want it to be known publicly, which is a bit late to be honest. Money may talk, but so does honouring your commitments, and the early signs are that Adams is a manager we should be looking to keep long term, which means the board treating him with a bit of respect.

 

[Canaryboy]

Interesting to note as well that Adams is no longer talking about transfer speculation as of tonight's Canary Call, which I take to mean that the board doesn't want to honour its commitment to him and doesn't want it to be known publicly, which is a bit late to be honest. Money may talk, but so does honouring your commitments, and the early signs are that Adams is a manager we should be looking to keep long term, which means the board treating him with a bit of respect.

Possibly reading too much into things? Perhaps he is just fed up with being constantly asked questions about transfers when he has games to prepare for, particularly in the run up to the scum game! 

I think we only have two or three players left at the club who played in the last Ipswich game, so his focus will be on ensuring that the squad understands how intense this game is and what it means to the fans. 

Lafferty is a must for the Ipswich game, bet he will be buzzing. 

 

[lyb]

Possibly reading too much into things? Perhaps he is just fed up with being constantly asked questions about transfers when he has games to prepare for, particularly in the run up to the scum game! 

I think we only have two or three players left at the club who played in the last Ipswich game, so his focus will be on ensuring that the squad understands how intense this game is and what it means to the fans. 

Lafferty is a must for the Ipswich game, bet he will be buzzing. 

Yes possibly. I don't know. Ultimately just delighted we're doing so well, but it seriously bothers me that the club isn't sticking to an open commitment it made to support him in keeping who he wants. Money may talk as is so often mentioned in football, but behaving with a bit of honour does as well. 

 

[York Canary]

So far (that I can remember)

OUT

Yobo

Elmander

Gutierrez

Nash

Fox

Snodgrass (£7m)

RvW (£1.5m up front)

Pilkington (£1.5-2m)

Fer (£8m+)

Surman (£1-2m)

NO LONGER IN PLANS

Becchio

Bassong

Bunn

We'll be looking at around £18-20m from transfers out roughly. Plus getting rid of some potentially crippling wages

INS

Grabban (£3m)

Lafferty (£3m)

O'Neill (free)

Cuellar (free)

Jerome (£2m)

Around £8m spent on transfers plus and sign-on fees.

So I'm hoping we can spend well on a quality right-back, maybe another CB and creative mid/attacking mid. Someone who can play on the left would be nice unless we keep using Redmond and Murphy there. 

Depth and quality is going to be what gets us through this season and pushes us to the top places

 

[York Canary]

Ruddy

Rudd

Matthews

Turner

R.Bennett

Martin

Whittaker

Olsson

Garrido

Tettey

Johnson

O'Neill

Howson

Hoolahan

E.Bennett

Redmond

Murphy

Grabban

Lafferty

Hooper

Loza

I'm assuming that we want to loan out Gafaiti and Jacob Murphy plus any other youngsters like McGeehan.

I'm also assuming (from what is plain to see) that Becchio, Bassong, Bunn are out of favour and that Surman and Fer are as good as gone.

That leaves a team of 21 plus hopefully Jerome and Cuellar that will take us up to 23.

I'm hoping for that standout RB, another attacking mid/left-sided player like Surman, but better and potentially another CB.

If we can sort a solid defence out then we will be looking very good

 

[Canaryboy]

Wouldn't surprise me if Loza goes out on loan again if Jerome arrives.

 

[York Canary]

Wouldn't surprise me if Loza goes out on loan again if Jerome arrives.

I think we'd be better off keeping him in all honesty. Unless he only goes a short-term 3 month loan with a recall clause to stay up to speed and stay competitive.

 

[Beauseant]

Wouldn't surprise me if Loza goes out on loan again if Jerome arrives.

Could be an issue with that one. Apparently Wigan have got involved so its up in the air again.

As to the original post, none of us have all the facts so its easy enough to construct whatever reality suits our personal view of the club. If we distrust the board it's easy enough to create a case for misleading the fans. It's also easy enough to make Adams an innocent victim when, in fact, no transfer at City takes place over the manager's head. Part of the problem is that people assume that whatever is said by club officials in the media is gospel but that's naive. Why would Adams, for example, say on Monday that Fer was having a medical at QPR on Tuesday when the deal could still collapse? Managers tell white lies all the time at all levels. I spent years managing at semi pro level and had to talk to the press every week, but I never felt any compulsion to tell them anything I didn't want to see in the papers. For football people the media are a necessary evil, not their best friend and confidant.

As for Bowkett, its one thing to say players don't have to be sold, but what if the player demands it? Yes, they may be under contract, but what is the point of having a disgruntled player poisoning the dressing room (and we had several last season) when you could get good money. Again, we only get bits of the picture and assemble them how we choose.

Finally, let's have the discussion about the money after the 1st September. On then will it be truly objective, but I would make the point that there is surely some sense in keeping some powder dry for January.

 

[Jimmy smith]

If wages were 50% of revenue, and our revenue has halved, then that means if our wage bill remained the same this season we would have a wage bill which is 100% of turnover - which is clearly completely unsustainable.

We did release Fox & Nash, and Elmander, Guiterrez and Yobo were sent home. 

But I suspect we would find that people like Pilkington & Snodgrass were earning a lot more money than people like O'Neill. 

Even Becchio was said to be on £25k a week! Might explain why we are stuck with him! 

Everyone took a pay cut of around a third.

 

[Jimmy smith]

Could be an issue with that one. Apparently Wigan have got involved so its up in the air again.

As to the original post, none of us have all the facts so its easy enough to construct whatever reality suits our personal view of the club. If we distrust the board it's easy enough to create a case for misleading the fans. It's also easy enough to make Adams an innocent victim when, in fact, no transfer at City takes place over the manager's head. Part of the problem is that people assume that whatever is said by club officials in the media is gospel but that's naive. Why would Adams, for example, say on Monday that Fer was having a medical at QPR on Tuesday when the deal could still collapse? Managers tell white lies all the time at all levels. I spent years managing at semi pro level and had to talk to the press every week, but I never felt any compulsion to tell them anything I didn't want to see in the papers. For football people the media are a necessary evil, not their best friend and confidant.

As for Bowkett, its one thing to say players don't have to be sold, but what if the player demands it? Yes, they may be under contract, but what is the point of having a disgruntled player poisoning the dressing room (and we had several last season) when you could get good money. Again, we only get bits of the picture and assemble them how we choose.

Finally, let's have the discussion about the money after the 1st September. On then will it be truly objective, but I would make the point that there is surely some sense in keeping some powder dry for January.

Fer wasn't disgruntled. His agent might have been but then they always are. Leroy was happy enough to stay and played well vs Watford. It seems harder to get rid of them ones!

 

[Jimmy smith]

I think we'd be better off keeping him in all honesty. Unless he only goes a short-term 3 month loan with a recall clause to stay up to speed and stay competitive.

Morris has a recall clause I believe

 

[Beauseant]

Fer wasn't disgruntled. His agent might have been but then they always are. Leroy was happy enough to stay and played well vs Watford. It seems harder to get rid of them ones!

His comments to the Dutch media make it pretty clear he was determined to stay in the Premier. The fact that he left with class doesn't mean he wanted to stay.

 

[Canaryboy]

His comments to the Dutch media make it pretty clear he was determined to stay in the Premier. The fact that he left with class doesn't mean he wanted to stay.

If he wants to keep his place in the Holland squad he needs to be playing at the top level, don't see many Championship players being picked for the best national teams in the world - can't blame the bloke, any of us would want to represent our country if we were playing the game. Especially as he has only just made the breakthrough on the international scene. 

If Hooper goes it will probably be for the same reason, he wants to play for England - only, I just don't think he will ever be quite at that level. He is better than we saw for most of last season, but he is no England striker. 

 

[Beauseant]

If he wants to keep his place in the Holland squad he needs to be playing at the top level, don't see many Championship players being picked for the best national teams in the world - can't blame the bloke, any of us would want to represent our country if we were playing the game. Especially as he has only just made the breakthrough on the international scene. 

If Hooper goes it will probably be for the same reason, he wants to play for England - only, I just don't think he will ever be quite at that level. He is better than we saw for most of last season, but he is no England striker. 

To be honest, I just don't see Hooper as being desirable for a Premier team. To be honest its difficult to see him getting ahead of Grabban and Lafferty.